Episode 5

Body Image & Health Pt. 1, ft. Travaris

Episode 5: Unveiling Body Image & Health

Welcome to The Mirror Project!

Christine and Alexandra are here, and today marks the start of a two-part episode, diving deep into body image and health, featuring a special guest. Please be advised that this episode may touch upon sensitive topics related to body image, weight, and eating disorders. If these discussions might be triggering, we completely understand if you prefer to skip.

Stay Connected

Before we begin, make sure to hit that like, subscribe, or follow button on your preferred listening platform. We’re ready when you are!

Guest Introduction

Welcome our first guest ever! Born in the Spice Girl era, Travaris feels it’s her mission to keep Girl Power Alive. When she is not plotting on how to make the world a better place for women, she enjoys reading and writing.

Social Media & Body Positivity Movement 

Cultural Standards and Social Media: Exploring societal beauty and fitness standards amplified by social platforms.

Racial Differences: Diving into differences between beauty standards in the black and white communities in the U.S.

Body Positivity Movement: Discussing the essence and perspectives on the body positivity movement.

Representation in Media: Analyzing the portrayal and marketing strategies of plus-size celebrities.

Engage with Us on Socials

Connect with us on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube Let’s continue these conversations together!

Eating Disorders

*Trigger Warning: If dealing with eating disorders, resources will be provided. Eating Disorder Hope’s webpage of resources. Psychology Today’s Find a Therapist (U.S.). If you are in other countries please reach out to local health resources.*

Understanding Eating Disorders: Exploring various types and their characteristics based on medical information. Mayo Clinic’s article and information from the NIH.

Cultural Perspectives: Examining how eating disorders manifest and are addressed within diverse communities.

Focus on Black Women: Addressing eating disorders in the context of Black women’s health and experiences. Health City Article that our guest shared.

Personal Experiences: Sharing personal narratives and insights related to eating disorders.

Impactful Quotes: Reflecting on a thought-provoking quote from someone on the path to recovery.

Clothing Sizes & Labels

Sizing Woes: Critiquing the inconsistency and confusion around women’s sizing in the U.S.

The Dichotomy of Sizing: Discussing the categorization of body sizes and the perceived gaps in labeling.

Perceived Downsides: Unpacking societal perceptions and challenges faced by individuals deemed as “skinny.”

Closing Thoughts

We hope these discussions on body image and health initiate reflective dialogues. Your thoughts and stories are always welcome on our social media channels. Christine resonates with the frustrating sizing disparities, while Alexandra emphasizes the importance of understanding body diversity.

Support Our Journey

Support our podcast through Buy Us a Coffee! Your support fuels our passion for these conversations.

Join Us Next Time  

Don’t forget to like, subscribe, or follow on your chosen platform. Until next week for part two of this engaging discussion on The Mirror Project!

Transcript
Christine:

Hello and welcome to The Mirror Project.

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We are your host, Christine,

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Alexandra: And Alexandra.

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Christine: and we are so

glad you are joining us.

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Today we will be talking about

body image and health in a two

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part episode with a special guest.

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If you are currently dealing with body

image issues, weight issues, or eating

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disorders, these may be triggering

conversations, and we completely

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understand if you want to skip these.

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However, if you are on the road to

recovering or know someone who is

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struggling with any of these, we invite

you into the conversation where we hope

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to create a safe space for open discourse.

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Alexandra: Before we dive in today's

topic, like, subscribe, or follow us

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on your preferred listening platform.

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Go ahead, pause, and do

it now before you forget.

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Don't worry, we won't

get started without you.

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We want to welcome a very special guest

and our very first guest to the show.

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Born in the Spice Girl era, Traveris feels

it's her mission to keep girl power alive.

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When she is not plotting how to make

the world a better place for women,

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she enjoys reading and writing.

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So thank you, Traveris, for joining us.

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And why don't you say a

brief word to our audience?

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Travaris: Thank you for having me in

my preparation for this conversation.

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I've learned a lot things that I didn't

know I was experiencing my whole life

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were brought to light in my research.

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So I'm ready to share and talk

about those things with you guys.

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Christine: Awesome.

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So why don't we kick off by

talking about social media and

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the body positivity movement.

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I know we each have different

experiences and different opinions

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on that, so I'm excited to dive in.

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Alexandra: Yeah, definitely.

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I know with quite a few things, I think

I definitely send to Christine and to

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Traveris is things that we see a lot

in the social media, you know, apps

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and things of the fitness influencers

and how aesthetic it all looks.

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And it kind of can be discouraging

to go, Hey, these women, or, I mean,

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or men have what we would call.

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Ideal bodies and they must

spend all this time at the gym.

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I work a normal job.

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How do I do that?

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And sometimes it's almost like, Hey, this

is supposed to be inspiring, but I almost

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feel like discouraged to even start.

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So yeah, definitely.

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It is quite an interesting topic

that we are going to dig into today.

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Christine: I, agree too, and for me, I

I'm really excited because how, you know,

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like anything social media, the algorithm

caters to whatever you're seeing, so we

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each see different things and at least for

me as a plus size woman coming into this

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space, it's taken a long time and it's

been an interesting journey for me to do.

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Accept myself in a space where,

you know, it took a long time

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for me to see anyone like me.

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Alexandra: Yeah, so I would say

definitely the predominant image for

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white women in American culture is.

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Stick thin, potentially big breasts,

and perfectly coiffed hair, makeup,

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despite the fact that you're supposed

to have run six miles, or, you

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know, do this really heavy workout.

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And so I think that's almost

sometimes an unrealistic

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expectation to try and live up to.

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But Traveris, I know you wanted to bring

up some different cultural perspectives.

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Do you want to share with

us what you have seen

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Travaris: Yes, but before I say that,

I would like to say something to a

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point you made about like on social

media, these are supposed to be like

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positive images to help you get fit.

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And being that today is the,

like marks like the first week

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of January my girlfriend is avid.

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She loves to gym.

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She likes to work out and she was

telling me how they, I don't know where

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she saw it or someone said it, but at

their gym they have like this prompt

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for people who come to the gym regularly

to be nice to people who are starting.

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There, you know, everyone's like

they're gonna lose weight in the new

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year and you know, the gyms are flooded

in January And she said they said

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that people should be nice to

the newcomers and I was like,

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why do they have to say that?

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Like who what would they do

to the people that are coming?

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And she

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was like well a lot of people that

are like Regular gym goers will

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be kind of like annoyed that all

these people are in the gym, don't

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know how to use the equipment.

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And it kind of made me think about how

like you see those Tik Tok girls who

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they're like 120 pounds stripping wet

and they have like their head to toe,

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like matching workout wear that, you

know, cost 200 and then they're like a

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full face of makeup with earrings in.

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And I'm like, When I was growing up,

going to the gym, you were gonna sweat.

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You didn't like, you didn't get

ready to go to the gym and to

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look cute and to make videos.

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So I just, I think that adds a layer of

intimidation and then it adds a culture

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to like gym life that a lot of people

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are of.

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They're not only afraid of like,

Oh, what if I don't lose the weight?

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What if I do all this

work and it doesn't work?

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But they're also afraid of

like how they're going to be

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seen or perceived and judged.

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Christine: I know for me I've never felt

welcome in a gym space, but especially

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today with like, the aesthetic nature

of what being a gym girl or like going

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to the gym is supposed to look like.

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It's just even more unattainable in my

mind and I'm like, why would I even try?

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Like, I don't think I would feel

welcome and it doesn't look like

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I would feel, I would be welcome.

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So it's very interesting that that's just

a blanket statement at the start of the

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year for people at the gym just being

like, be kind to To these new folk who are

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showing up, but they'll be gone by March.

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Don't worry like what?

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Alexandra: Well, no, and you make a great

point, Javeris, about how, like, going in

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and a lot of confusion about the machines

because I remember I was very lucky in

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college we had a mutual friend who was

in physical therapy, like, DPT school.

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And I would walk into the weight

room and I go, I mean, other than the

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free weights, you're like, what the,

how do you use half these machines?

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They look like alien contraptions.

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And she was like, okay, well,

we're going to move this here.

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And we're going to do this.

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So it works this part of

your body from this angle.

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And I was like, I'm so glad

I'm with somebody who knows

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how to use these machines.

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So I can totally imagine if you're a

newbie, it's just like, What do I do?

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And so of course you're standing there

kind of going, how do I fix the machine?

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What way is it supposed to go?

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And it's so interesting that with

new year's like resolutions for like

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losing weight or getting healthy,

it's this, I don't know, almost.

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extreme jump into like fitness, right?

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Instead of like, Hey, maybe my

goal for the first quarter of

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the year or so often should be to

get outside and walk fast paced.

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So I'm not out of breath when

I, you know, I'm doing exercise

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for five minutes or something.

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Why do we like jump into the extreme

of, I have to be lifting weights

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and running on the treadmill.

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Like we can find different

ways to adapt to our lifestyle.

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Christine: for sure.

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I also think It's disappointing, like,

okay, you enter the new year with this

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energy, and you have this enthusiasm

from people who want to come to the

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gym and get started, but then from that

point on, they don't necessarily have

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the support to learn how to use the

equipment, know what's right for them,

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and unless you're gonna pay a personal

trainer or join a class or something, and

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if that's not something you can afford,

I know for me, it's like, well, what?

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Okay, I have this

enthusiasm, I want to try.

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But then you can easily

get defeated and give up.

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And that's why there is a drop off.

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That's why by March, the gym isn't

as crowded as it was in January.

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So, I don't know what the change is.

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But I think the more we talk

about it, hopefully something

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will change and we will see

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Travaris: Okay, so I can go ahead

and talk about the differences with

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body image as far as it relates

to black women and white women.

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So I grew up in white spaces for a

lot of, a good part of my childhood.

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So I was the only black child in a

classroom of blonde hair, blue eyed kids.

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And I remember being in, I think

it was fifth grade and there was a

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student in there, she was my friend.

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She was 50 pounds and I was like,

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Christine: in fifth

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grade.

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Travaris: And

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I was like, Oh, I need to be 50 pounds.

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And I remember telling my mom I

didn't want to eat dinner or I

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couldn't have extra snack because

in my mind I felt like, and you

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know, I should have been 50 pounds.

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And I remember my mom telling me like,

Hey, you're not shaped like them.

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You're not shaped like that.

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Your body is made differently

and you will never be like that.

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So I made a decision then.

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I knew that my body was built

different because of, or just the

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shape of how I was built as a person.

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I just wasn't going to be thin.

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And then as I got older, like into

high school, I learned that black

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women and women of color were usually

praised for being what they call thick.

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They would always say, You have the nice

coke body, coke bottle shape, and that

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was what black women were going after.

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They were going after the thick

thighs, the skinny waist, and

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the large buttocks, because that

was more physically appealing.

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And it was just so funny because,

like, after I got that mindset, I

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felt like, you know, oh, I don't

have to worry about being skinny.

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Like, I don't, I don't have to because,

you know, my standards are different.

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When I would talk to, you know, when

I would talk to my friends who were

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white and they would tell me they

were still struggling with that.

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I had a roommate once that said, every

woman struggles with body dysmorphia

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at one point in time in her life.

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And I was like, that's untrue.

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And she was like, well, you know,

I had an eating disorder in high

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school and I was like, well.

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That's because media has

pushed that on you guys.

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I said, we don't have the same

message in us because black women

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are not as represented in media.

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Especially they weren't, now it's

been a lot more diverse, but I grew

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up in the 90s and there was always

a token, like you might see a black

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person, but it wasn't the standard.

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So,

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I thought that body dysmorphia,

body dysmorphia only

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affected the white community.

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But as I started to research, It

was, I learned that disordered

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eating didn't only show up in the

way of being too skinny or too thin.

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There's a lot of ways that women who are

of color, they force themselves to maybe

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overeat and they develop eating disorders.

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Or it's welcomed in black communities,

black communities to eat and eat and eat

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because you want to be a full figured

woman and It's the same problem, but

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just the opposite end of the spectrum.

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Now we're overeating to fit a standard,

and it's just as unhealthy as undereating.

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Alexandra: Yeah.

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And it's, it's so interesting that you

point out like, We are trying to achieve

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on either end of the spectrum a standard

versus really focusing on what's Healthy

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for our individual bodies and I don't

know something about that makes me

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extremely sad you know, it's just like

we were pushing so much on ourselves

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without maybe really understanding the

Consequences of what we are doing to our

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own bodies not just like How we mentally

affect our bodies, but what we are putting

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in our bodies or not putting in our

bodies to achieve somebody else's ideal.

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Christine: It's interesting

hearing Traveris give insight

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into what her experiences are.

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And for me, you know, growing up in

the family I was raised in, when it

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comes to food, it was always to give

comfort rather than, like, sitting

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down and, Dealing with emotional

issues or traumas that were going on.

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It's like, oh eat this you'll feel better.

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And so for me Growing up and dealing with

that as the struggles I was having, and

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I was really the only bigger girl in any

year that I was in it wasn't until high

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school that I had classmates who were

struggling with eating disorders that I

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know of but yeah It just is interesting to

sort of hear about everybody's experience.

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Travaris: I would like to say something

to what you just said, Christine,

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about, like, the role of food.

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Because I remember the scene

in Mean Girls where, I think,

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Damon was showing

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Like the different tables and where you

said and he points to the girls He's like

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girls who eat their fillings and then

at the next table He's like the girls

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who don't eat anything and there's like

like six girls drinking out of one can

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of soda but I had always thought about

Like people saying food was their comfort

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and I just recently I'm reading a book

about Like relationships A woman has

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with her mother and how that can like

affect everything and it actually it was

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connected a lot of times women who have

Relationship bad relationships or toxic

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relationships with their mother they

have eating they might develop eating

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disorders and I was wondering I was like,

what's the connection between that and

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they were saying in the book that If you

think about it, our mother was our first

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comfort and what did our mother give us?

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She was the first person to give us

food So we associate comfort with food.

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So it makes sense that if someone's,

you know, having a bad day or Having a

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hard time in their life that they turn

to food for comfort because that is

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our biological first experience of love

and of a constant form of affection,

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Christine: Mm.

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Alexandra: And what you're saying that I'm

thinking about how my mom talked about her

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relationship with her mother and how that

was different and how I've seen disordered

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appear eating appear in my mother and how

she didn't want to pass that on to me.

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Yeah.

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But it did in a different way, right?

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Like, so that's so interesting.

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So we've talked about the impact of

cultural and social media on our body

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image, but what are your guys's thoughts

about the body positivity movement?

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That's kind of really gained steam

for lack of a word in the past few

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years, because when preparing for

the show, I looked up what is the

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standard definition of body positivity?

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And so according to Wikipedia,

Uber reliable source there.

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So fact check it's a movement that

is supposed to be one that promotes a

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positive view of all bodies, regardless

of shape, skin tone, gender, and

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physical abilities, which a base

statement, think that's really great.

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But what are your guys's experiences

with the Bazzi positivity movement?

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Travaris: I always thought body Positivity

movement, which is like a bit of a farce.

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It was kind of like one of those

we're going to slap a pretty band

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aid on a deep wound and call it

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healed.

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I

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never really, I just, to me,

it was always very superficial.

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I never took it seriously.

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I just, I thought it was just like a

gimmick or a game because I felt like in

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a way body positivity was lying to people.

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It was saying, let's be body positive,

everyone's beautiful, everyone's

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perfect, no matter if you're 400

pounds or 100 and you're an adult.

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It was very much so a contradiction

because It was the same internet

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that was telling us, Hey, be positive

about your body was the same internet

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that was pushing the images of those

girls going to the gym with their high

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slicked back ponytails

and a full face of makeup.

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It was the same internet that

was showing how women were

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literally dying to get surgeries

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to fit a certain look.

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So I remember

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one time I was reading something,

I forgot where I was reading it.

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And it said Cosmopolitan is a

magazine that on one page, it

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will tell you a workout regimen.

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But on the next page over, it'll

tell you how to make cupcakes or like

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it'll, it'll show you one, one on

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one part of the magazine.

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They're like, yeah, lose weight.

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But also we have this, you know,

recipe that you can, you know,

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it has sugar and chocolate and

you should totally make this.

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So

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it's just like women are constantly.

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getting these mixed messages

so I just felt like body

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positivity was one of those like weak

attempts of to me I thought it was like

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insecurity wrapped up in a pretty bow and

it didn't solve any problems it just it

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just kind of like perpetuate it

because if we're really on the body

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positivity movement then I feel like

we should change how women are seen

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or what's considered as beautiful

if you want to change that you can't

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just say everyone's beautiful but then

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have like this fine print If you're this

way, if you look like Bella Hadid or

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a rapper's girlfriend, you know?

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Christine: mm hmm.

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Yeah.

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yeah,

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It's like looking at And we, we can dive

into this a little more, but just to

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that, like thinking about celebrities,

especially those who were once plus size

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women in the industry who have now lost

a lot, a significant amount of weight I

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think for me, I was hopeful when I saw

the rise of the body positivity movement.

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I was like, oh, finally, like, can we,

can we begin to heal this deep wound?

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And for a lot of, for a lot of it,

I kind of kept it at a distance.

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I was, I was interested

to see what would happen.

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And I think I've so far been

let down in a lot of ways.

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And.

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I find myself gravitating more towards

women on social media who are in the

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influencer realm but who talk candidly

to their following about their journey

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rather than the aesthetic gym girl

that, you know, never has appealed

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to me, And that's taken a long time.

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It hasn't happened.

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I haven't found that

until just this past year.

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So I think Traveris, you're right.

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It is insecurity wrapped in a bow.

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And I, I just, I think the more we

talk about it, hopefully the more

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the dialogue around it will change.

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I hope that it's here to stay.

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In some way, a little bit.

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Like, I want us to keep,

you know, moving forward.

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And it's like we're

what's that quote, Alex?

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We're building our wings as

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Alexandra: oh, yeah, so we have to jump

off cliffs and build our wings on the way

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down.

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Christine: like, this is, this is

something that is, we're, we're

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gonna figure it out as we go.

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We don't have A playbook

here, or a rulebook and we're

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figuring it out as we go.

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Alexandra: well, and that's made

very clear by both of what you said

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that, you know, when the, the body

positivity movement started to rise,

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you were starting to see more print

advertisement with plus size models.

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And I became so disillusioned with

that when I had seen Oh gosh, I

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don't know who put it out, but it

was a model talking about the chute.

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She was not a plus size model.

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She was a normal, average model, but they

would put plus size padding on her for the

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chute so that she would have that, like,

thinner, more defined jawline, and I was

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like So it's lying to us, like Travera

said, that's slapping a pretty band

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aid or a pretty bow on an ugly problem.

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And I don't mean ugly

as in the wound is ugly.

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I just mean like it's

this festering wound.

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But, and then, you know,

conversely, so it's like, okay,

333

:

love your body, love your body.

334

:

But every other advertisement

we see on the internet or TV was

335

:

weight watchers slim down diets.

336

:

What is it?

337

:

The green tea extract or the

green coffee, like all these.

338

:

Contradictory contradictory, contradictory

messaging but I know Travers, we've

339

:

had a couple conversations about

celebrities who've, who've done that

340

:

shift from loss, losing a lot of weight.

341

:

Do you want to share some of

what we talked about in the past?

342

:

Travaris: Yeah, sure.

343

:

I would like to bring up like Lizzo

because I feel like she's like the poster

344

:

child and mascot for body positivity.

345

:

And one thing that she does that I'm

always like kind of side eyeing is

346

:

that One thing that the body positivity

movement has always done Is that, I've

347

:

seen this before, body positivity where

a woman who's plus size or bigger,

348

:

or who's not the conventional thin,

they'll start to make clothing for

349

:

them that are typically made for women

who are smaller, like a minikit or

350

:

something with a plunge and neckline,

and they'll make them in a size.

351

:

So these women feel like, okay,

now I have this size so I can wear

352

:

this dress and it typically I feel

like it gives a one track mind to

353

:

what is sexy and what is beautiful.

354

:

Like you can be

355

:

a bigger or plus size woman and dress

for your body type and turn heads.

356

:

But I think body positivity has shown or

told women, no, you have to be half naked.

357

:

No, you do, you should bury your stomach.

358

:

And I think Lizzo does a lot of that

because it was this one time she was

359

:

at an NBA basketball game and I don't

know what it was, I can't remember,

360

:

it was like a leotard or something

where her actual behind was exposed

361

:

and she was up, she was up, she

was dancing and she was trying

362

:

to fault people for saying, hey,

if we're in a body positive era.

363

:

Why can't I, you know,

show myself in such a way?

364

:

Because you're telling me all women,

all sizes are sexy and beautiful.

365

:

And it's just, I think it was a

very It was very telling of how she

366

:

wasn't thinking along the lines of

body positivity because she thought

367

:

she had to fit this model of what

sexy was, the half naked girl

368

:

exposing herself, showing her body.

369

:

And it just, to me, I felt like it did

the opposite of what, and it just showed

370

:

a woman who was just very insecure

371

:

and, you know, and also speaking

of Lizzo, did you see, did you guys

372

:

see how, I think it was last year.

373

:

where she was being called

to the carpet because she was

374

:

calling her own dancers fat

375

:

and saying that they needed to lose

weight and that she, you know, was

376

:

disgusted by how they were looking.

377

:

And I was like, this is

interesting because you as the

378

:

mascot of body positivity were

saying that you loved her body.

379

:

So,

380

:

but you're telling someone

else that they're fat.

381

:

So that tells me that you have

internalized fat phobia and fat shame.

382

:

So that's, that's another.

383

:

stark example of how celebrities,

they'll show one thing to the public,

384

:

but all these other behaviors are

not in a line, in alignment with

385

:

really loving themselves.

386

:

Christine: Right.

387

:

Alexandra: Yeah.

388

:

Well, and I think that's a great segue

into what we were going to talk about

389

:

next, which is, I know we've already

touched on was eating disorders.

390

:

So, I mean, I think the three of us

have probably seen many of them, but

391

:

for those listening who aren't aware of.

392

:

The many variety of eating disorders

that are out there because I feel

393

:

like anorexia and bulimia are the ones

that are talked about most but there's

394

:

also Orthorexia which is an obsession

with healthy eating with restrictive

395

:

behaviors and then there's Binge

eating disorders, and we've also talked

396

:

about the impact of a body dysmorphia.

397

:

So not only disordered eating but How

we mentally view ourselves and I would

398

:

like to give a PSA to anyone listening

that if you or someone you care about

399

:

is struggling with an eating disorder,

there are many resources available.

400

:

And in our show notes, we'll include

links to eating disorders, hopes, web

401

:

page of resources and psychologies.

402

:

Today's to find a therapist within the US.

403

:

And if you are in other countries, please

reach out to your local health resources.

404

:

With all that said, I know we briefly

touched on it Traveris, but how else do

405

:

eating disorders show up in communities

of color and how are they treated?

406

:

Travaris: So a statistic that I read last

year and I checked on last night, it says

407

:

that four out of five black women or 80

percent of black women are overweight.

408

:

Last night, I read that the average

black woman weighs around 187 pounds.

409

:

And this article about Health City

was saying that most eating disorders

410

:

usually show up as anorexia or bulimia

in the mainstream, but black women

411

:

are more likely to have bulimia.

412

:

Suffered from bench eating disorders and a

413

:

bench eating disorder is a disorder where

the Person will eat a large amount of food

414

:

in a short amount of time and the person

feels that they do not have control Of

415

:

what or how much they are eating And they

said black women like we were talking

416

:

about earlier usually prays for this

417

:

That no one really catches these things

because if you're saying that something

418

:

like that is positive and it is encouraged

Then they're usually not detected in

419

:

their own community, but the way that

it translates to outside of the black

420

:

community, the art article talks about

three barriers of eating disorder care.

421

:

Why wo, why black women are least

likely to get care for these things

422

:

is the first one is racism and

discrimination in the healthcare system.

423

:

Number two is insufficient research

on eating disorders in black women

424

:

leading to them being undiagnosed

or someone misunderstanding.

425

:

And then also the third reason was

the underrepresentation of black care,

426

:

healthcare providers in the field.

427

:

So

428

:

a lot of times if there's not

a doctor that looks like you or

429

:

may not have the same culture as

you, you will be misdiagnosed or

430

:

any problem that you may have.

431

:

They may attribute it to something else or

432

:

just mark it off as like, oh, you're fine.

433

:

You just need to hit the

gym a little bit more.

434

:

And then also we were talking it

says this quote was in the article.

435

:

It says that thin, young, white,

female stereotype of eating disorders

436

:

is a form of erasure, frequently

causing eating disorders to go

437

:

largely unnoticed in black women.

438

:

So most of the time, black

women are not treated for eating

439

:

disorders because black women don't

know they have eating disorders

440

:

until they're

441

:

much older.

442

:

Or to the point to where they're now sick.

443

:

And, cause

444

:

black women develop a lot of

like hypertension and diabetes.

445

:

And, that's, comes from a

lifelong of eating poorly.

446

:

Because they may not have access to,

cause eating healthy is not cheap.

447

:

It's very

448

:

expensive.

449

:

You go to Whole Foods and you tell me

how, how much you're gonna get for.

450

:

50.

451

:

So that, that can be very

452

:

discouraging.

453

:

That's very discouraging and

a lot of disorder eating is

454

:

just passed down to their

455

:

children because that's how they ate.

456

:

And that's how they were raised.

457

:

So they use their children like that.

458

:

My grandmother and her

sisters are wildly obese.

459

:

And my mother sat me

down when I was a child.

460

:

And she said, you will not look like your

grandmother or her or your great aunt.

461

:

She's like, you will not do

462

:

that.

463

:

She's like, and my mom had like, we

were very weight conscious household.

464

:

I didn't know this until I got older,

but she was like kind of policing it.

465

:

Kind of like you can't

eat after this time.

466

:

One time in high school, I

told her how much I weighed.

467

:

She's like, yeah, we need

to get that back down.

468

:

So it was a very strict, you know,

like, hey, we will not perpetuate this.

469

:

cycle in our house, but also

it had me very, like, afraid

470

:

to get over a certain number.

471

:

And I would restrain myself in ways.

472

:

So, yeah, that's how

it, you know, shows up.

473

:

And there's not, there's not any

education on this for black women,

474

:

because they just don't think.

475

:

They see an old 1990s ad of a girl who

you can see her ribs and she doesn't

476

:

look like them, so they flip on.

477

:

They're like, well, that

doesn't apply to me.

478

:

Not knowing that, like we said earlier,

they're on the other end of the spectrum.

479

:

Alexandra: Well, yeah.

480

:

And that brings up a

really good point, right?

481

:

Like what we see advertised to us

isn't is rarely the entire story

482

:

with what Christine had said earlier

about plus sized Women who experience

483

:

anorexia, but you don't look like

the poster child of anorexia.

484

:

So you're like, I, Oh, that must not

be me or I'm not sick in this way.

485

:

And I know next week's conversation,

we're definitely going to jump

486

:

more into like the medical side

of our experiences, but it's Yeah.

487

:

It's so interesting to see how this

all can show up in across generations.

488

:

Christine: Traveris.

489

:

How has that impacted you now as an adult?

490

:

And like Like, living on your

own, making choices for yourself,

491

:

and your live experience.

492

:

Travaris: It's a, it's a great question.

493

:

Thank you, Christine.

494

:

I thought, I always like to like

tell myself, Oh, you're past that.

495

:

You're good.

496

:

You're fine.

497

:

And it's actually funny

because after I was in the U.

498

:

S.

499

:

Navy, so that's another place that,

Eating disorders and things and

500

:

I've seen people do a lot of things

to lose weight because you have

501

:

to because of a Physical standard,

502

:

but once I got out of the military

I lost a lot of weight and

503

:

now I had people telling me.

504

:

Oh, you're too thin.

505

:

You're too little you're too small and

I gained the weight back and I found

506

:

that out over the Christmas break and

I got on a scale and I was like, ooh so

507

:

I immediately started to make plans on

how I was going to get the weight off

508

:

and I went back into the same cycle.

509

:

I, I used to think like, Oh, I

don't look like, you know, I'm

510

:

not like the skinny white girls

who, you know, have these issues.

511

:

But I do, I, I can't, I can't

say that I'm exempt from any of

512

:

these because I still have the.

513

:

That voice in the back of my head, whether

it's media, it's my mother, it's my

514

:

own standards that I've put on myself.

515

:

And I did, you know, come to a

conclusion that I needed to start

516

:

to, you know, restrict my eating.

517

:

But I, this time I wanted to tell

myself, let's do it in a healthy way.

518

:

Let's, let's find a way that, and

then also I was like, what might

519

:

work for this girl on the internet.

520

:

May not work for you.

521

:

So

522

:

I found healthy ways.

523

:

And I, I, I tried different methods and

my body feels better, but, and that's

524

:

another thing I wanted to focus on.

525

:

How did I feel versus how did I look

or what was that number on the scale?

526

:

So to answer your question, it's,

it's, it's a, it's a monkey on my back.

527

:

I can never really fully get away from

it, but I'm, at least I told myself,

528

:

let's change the relationship to it.

529

:

Let's not do it in an unhealthy way.

530

:

Yes.

531

:

Alexandra: Point, or it's something

that I've experienced a lot that kind

532

:

of like you all, that messaging you

internalize and it turns into your own.

533

:

Inner talk.

534

:

Because I have also struggled

with an eating disorder.

535

:

Probably when I was a teenager.

536

:

And in fact, I remember the exact moment

that I that flip switched in my brain.

537

:

And I do remember the second I was

grew up in Southern California.

538

:

So there was always you know, the,

the hot fit girls in the summer.

539

:

And I was like, okay, fine.

540

:

But I was really young.

541

:

And then I went to go visit my

dad's family here in North Carolina.

542

:

My parents didn't come with me.

543

:

They just put me on a plane.

544

:

And so I think I mentioned earlier

that my mom's relationship with food

545

:

from her mother was very different.

546

:

And my mom didn't want to talk about.

547

:

Any of it with me like she her rationale

that we've talked about now is like

548

:

I didn't want to put any of that on

you, but I think when I was younger I

549

:

kind of saw the way she behaved around

the food and it She didn't have to

550

:

say anything for me to understand.

551

:

Something was off about that relationship.

552

:

So, it was already primed in that way.

553

:

But it come out a lot of

my dad's family is not just

554

:

overweight, but probably obese.

555

:

And, I Remember my cousin's husband

was like talking about how he'd gone

556

:

to the doctor and the doctor was like,

you need to seriously lose weight

557

:

because your heart is impacted and if

you don't, you may not see your kids

558

:

graduate high school or college and We

were down at Myrtle beach and I just

559

:

remember him laughing and eating this

giant, like seven layer chocolate cake.

560

:

And it mortified me, right?

561

:

Cause I was like, sir, you, you're

laughing off advice regardless of the

562

:

craziness that the medical profession

is, which we'll jump into later.

563

:

But I, I dunno, I was standing on

the beach and I remember looking out

564

:

at the water and I'm like, you will

not look like your dad's family.

565

:

You will not do this.

566

:

And I came home and that's when

I started restricting and I

567

:

think that was eighth grade.

568

:

And by sophomore year of high school, I

was really fully into like restrictive

569

:

eating, anorexia, overworking out.

570

:

And very lucky had supportive parents

who my mother found me a therapist,

571

:

which is a good this person said

she specialized in eating disorders.

572

:

And I would say she fucked

me up a little bit more.

573

:

Like she,

574

:

Christine: Mm.

575

:

Mm.

576

:

Alexandra: ways made it better,

but made it worse and I mean,

577

:

along that of not eating and trying

to, I had really, I can't see my

578

:

body the way other people see it.

579

:

Like I just, when someone's like,

Oh, you have beautiful face.

580

:

And I'm like, okay.

581

:

Thank you for the compliment.

582

:

I do mean that but also I'm

immediately like how can they

583

:

say that my chin is this?

584

:

so this is this way or

585

:

like my breasts are too big or my butt's

too big and Just kind of you know, I

586

:

may not restrictive eating anymore.

587

:

So I may not be quote unquote cured

from anorexia, but still dealing with

588

:

the mental, as Travera said, like when

you see a number, when the numbers

589

:

were obsessive calorie counting, right?

590

:

Cause you had to be within 1200 calories.

591

:

And if you wanted to lose weight,

it had to be less than that.

592

:

When I panic about my weight or how I

look, that's where my mind immediately

593

:

jumps to of like, how do we do that?

594

:

So changing that relationship to

food and your body and your weight

595

:

is almost a lifelong journey.

596

:

And it takes a lot of work to.

597

:

To not jump to the unhealthy way

of dealing it in the first place.

598

:

So, yeah,

599

:

Christine: face resonates

so much with, with me.

600

:

And I think a lot of women who

are bigger or are in the plus size

601

:

community, that's the compliment that

we hear pretty much exclusively or

602

:

have heard pretty much exclusively.

603

:

And it's.

604

:

It's always, it's like a backhanded

compliment because it's like, you

605

:

have a pretty face, but that's

all that's pretty about you.

606

:

And you'd be so much prettier

if you were skinnier.

607

:

So, it's something that the more we

talk about, I hope people become more

608

:

aware of and I think a lot of people

would say it not realizing how hurtful

609

:

it can be and come across to people.

610

:

And I know for me, like my when I was

younger, my people would always tell my

611

:

mom, like, Oh, your daughter's so pretty,

you should think about, you know, doing,

612

:

child modeling with her or something.

613

:

And she, I think, I didn't realize it

until I was much older, but she decided

614

:

to, just ignore the people who We're

telling her to consider that and just

615

:

let me be me and be a kid and I, think

I didn't realize how much that saved me

616

:

from a, from a, a life that I could have

gone down a much more dangerous path

617

:

and the modeling industry has changed

a lot and has become more accepting

618

:

of bigger women but, you You know,

growing up, that wasn't the case, so

619

:

went off on a little bit of a tangent,

620

:

but anyway.

621

:

Travaris: No.

622

:

Christine, I want to say something

to what you said about the backhanded

623

:

compliments because I actually.

624

:

I feel like, I'm going to challenge

anyone that uses those as compliments.

625

:

To me,

626

:

those are also, they're insulting you

twice if you really think about it.

627

:

Cause the 4A, I've gotten that

compliment, and this is a completely

628

:

different conversation, and I'm not going

629

:

to unravel that ball of yarn, but,

I got, this guy told me one time in

630

:

a class, he was a white boy, and he

said, you're pretty for a black girl.

631

:

And it, and I

632

:

thought about it, First of all,

you just said to me, like, compared

633

:

to a white woman, you would

not be considered attractive.

634

:

And secondly, he said, black people are

not conventionally attractive, but for

635

:

you, you look a bit, a little bit better.

636

:

So I've

637

:

always heard that too.

638

:

And then I've heard the, when

people, you know, are trying to

639

:

compliment a plus size woman, Oh,

you're, you're pretty for a big girl.

640

:

I'm like, well, you're

641

:

not really complimenting

her because you're just.

642

:

You didn't really say anything

actually that actually I would feel

643

:

that's actually a slap in the face cuz

644

:

it's like, you know So I just to anyone

listening to that, please don't ever say

645

:

that and think that you're complimenting

646

:

Christine: Right.

647

:

Travaris: not

648

:

Christine: And for those who have

gotten that compliment, I say

649

:

with air quotes, You're not alone

650

:

Alexandra: yeah.

651

:

Cause it's like, Oh, Hey, you're pretty.

652

:

But caveat asterisks, small print.

653

:

And you're like, this is

654

:

why

655

:

Christine: Mm

656

:

Alexandra: like, you just undid it.

657

:

You shouldn't have said

anything would have been a

658

:

better place.

659

:

Had you just not,

660

:

Travaris: a

661

:

Alexandra: thank you guys for

sharing your stories about those.

662

:

I definitely think it'll

be helpful to listeners.

663

:

Maybe not feel so alone because it is,

you know, quite a, it's quite a journey.

664

:

And I do say journey because

it does last quite a long time.

665

:

And if anyone has figured out how to just

Reflip that switch in your brain, please

666

:

let us know either send us a comment

on social media and just tell us how

667

:

to fix it because it needs to change.

668

:

Christine: Yeah.

669

:

I think something I've come to terms with

At this point in my life is I'm realizing

670

:

that I'm never going to reach a finish

line like I may work through something

671

:

and heal myself in in in a way that needs

to be healed but that there's always

672

:

going to be something else to work on

and While that's very daunting Exhausting

673

:

I think It's helped me immensely,

accepting that and accepting my body.

674

:

I think what, before we started

this, this conversation today,

675

:

Traveris brought up the idea of body

acceptance rather than body positivity.

676

:

And ever since she said that, it

has stuck with me and it has rung

677

:

true and has helped me a lot.

678

:

So thank you, Traveris.

679

:

Sure.

680

:

Travaris: Not only for you two,

Christine and Alexandra, but to the

681

:

people listening, I have a question.

682

:

I'm trying to, like,

still form it in my mind.

683

:

So if you don't, like, if you want

me to clarify, please let me know.

684

:

What would your goal, like, maybe

goal weight, goal body, goal figure,

685

:

what would that mean for you?

686

:

So, a lot of times, when someone is

trying to achieve something, they think

687

:

that the tangible, Whether it's a number

on the scale, a size in the back of

688

:

the pants, it's, it's not what there

is after, but it's never about that.

689

:

It's about how you're going

to feel about yourself.

690

:

So what would your goal mean to you?

691

:

If you don't want to share, that's

completely fine, but I would like

692

:

to ask that because it's kind of, I

feel like in this conversation, the

693

:

idea of weight is kind of like money.

694

:

People want a lot of money, but

it's not just money they want.

695

:

they want.

696

:

power.

697

:

They want influence.

698

:

They want to be able to take a vacation.

699

:

So like for your goal What

would that mean to you?

700

:

What would what would change about?

701

:

Your life or how you view yourself

702

:

Alexandra: Okay.

703

:

I'm going to jump in with an answer.

704

:

Cause I feel a little bit like

Hermione and the Harry Potter books.

705

:

It's like, Ooh, Ooh, me, me.

706

:

I can say this because.

707

:

Over the past year my

answer to your question.

708

:

I've really thought about it.

709

:

It's really changed because in early high

school freshman I was Down to I think a

710

:

size zero in one place, which I know we're

gonna talk about sizing in a minute, but

711

:

I still hated my body like I Hated it.

712

:

I thought my thighs were still too

big, you know, there was still flab

713

:

behind my bra strap so I was The size

I was quote unquote the weight, but

714

:

it didn't it didn't make me happy.

715

:

It didn't make me feel good.

716

:

So I'll say this like right now.

717

:

My goal weight is a hundred and

twenty six pounds Roughly a size four.

718

:

I'm not beholden to that.

719

:

I'm more beholden to how I feel.

720

:

Do I look like I'm 126 pounds?

721

:

Cool.

722

:

I could be heavier

because muscles heavier.

723

:

But what I want to feel when I'm

there is I want to see the image of my

724

:

body in my mind reflected externally.

725

:

And I want to feel happy.

726

:

I want to feel comfortable in my skin.

727

:

I want to feel comfortable in what I wear.

728

:

I want to feel Confident.

729

:

And I know that takes a lot of

work outside of just working on

730

:

what you eat and your weight.

731

:

It's a lot of working on becoming

happy and accepting your body.

732

:

And I love what Travera said about instead

of body positivity, because that's almost

733

:

like slapping a bandaid on it, right?

734

:

It's like you go from, Oh, I hate myself.

735

:

I hate myself.

736

:

Well, I guess I, I really love myself.

737

:

You say with like an angry face.

738

:

And it's like, I think Travera's

helped me one time when I was

739

:

like, I hate this part of myself,

but I feel like I can't say that.

740

:

And she's like, Say that self, say

that to yourself in the mirror,

741

:

because when you acknowledge that

you dislike or hate a part of your

742

:

body, it turns into acceptance.

743

:

And from that place, you can eventually

work on beginning to love yourself.

744

:

And this is definitely not

something that happens overnight.

745

:

So I

746

:

Christine: does not happen overnight.

747

:

I have always, I think, been afraid

to put in, to think about, a number

748

:

on the scale, or the size I'm wearing.

749

:

So I've never allowed myself as I've

gotten older, I've never sort of

750

:

leaned into that way of thinking.

751

:

I'm, mostly for me, my goal is to feel

good in my skin, which is a really easy

752

:

thing to say, but is very complicated.

753

:

Takes a lot to get to that point, but

To be able to move my body feel strong

754

:

be able to be present in moments with my

family, with friends and feel confident

755

:

like Alex said, that's, a lot of, a lot

of work goes into that, and for me, I'm

756

:

on the, I'm in the rebuilding phase coming

off of:

757

:

quite a bit of a nosedive, but Yeah, I

think that's, that's my goal, is to just

758

:

feel Good, in my skin and be able to

move my body at whatever size it may be.

759

:

Some days, like, I look at myself now

and some days I'm really feeling myself

760

:

and I think, ooh, I look and feel great.

761

:

And then some days I just want to

curl up and not get out of bed.

762

:

And that's okay and I, I think to the

point about the, like, body positivity,

763

:

positivity can be very fleeting.

764

:

So, I like.

765

:

I really like the word acceptance

because that's a multi step process.

766

:

Because you can look in the mirror

and you can say you love yourself even

767

:

though you don't and then eventually

that can turn into resentment.

768

:

But if you take the steps to know you want

to work towards self love and you look in

769

:

the mirror and say, okay, today I accept

myself for who I am and where I'm at.

770

:

Then tomorrow it might be a little easier.

771

:

So, you know.

772

:

I, I think that answers

your question, Travers, but

773

:

I'm, yeah I'm hopeful to hear from those

listening as well what their goals are,

774

:

Alexandra: traveris, you had shared

a quote with us for this episode.

775

:

And it was.

776

:

Nothing is good as skinny feels

what how would you say that fits in

777

:

with the answer to your question?

778

:

Travaris: Well, I was actually watching

something once and it was you know How

779

:

like you're like watching something on

YouTube and they suggest something else

780

:

to you And this woman, she was doing

a TED talk and she was a recovering

781

:

anorexic, and she said that quote,

nothing tastes as good as skinny feels.

782

:

And it just really made me think of how

we are willing to put our bodies to work.

783

:

through literal torture, like to

just ignore her body, just basic

784

:

body functions to fit into something

and to fit a standard that you might

785

:

not have even created for yourself.

786

:

But all those diets we get on, and

we always look at, okay, I can't

787

:

have that donut or I would really

like another piece of chicken, but.

788

:

How are you going to feel tomorrow

when you can't put yourself

789

:

in your jeans or something?

790

:

So that's why I asked, what

are we all doing this for?

791

:

Is it really worth it?

792

:

Is it really at the end of the day?

793

:

Is it true?

794

:

Do you feel it's true that nothing

really feels, nothing tastes as good as

795

:

the end of your, the end goal for you?

796

:

So that's why I kind of posed that

question, like, is it even worth it?

797

:

Like, when you think about what

you put yourself through to get

798

:

you, because you said something

very interesting, Alexander.

799

:

You said, I did all that, I got to

the goal, and I still wasn't happy.

800

:

I still didn't like it.

801

:

Nothing really ever changed.

802

:

Because I still

803

:

found something to say,

Hey, I don't like this part.

804

:

I got the, I got it, but,

There's that but again.

805

:

There's that dot, dot, dot.

806

:

Christine: hmm.

807

:

Alexandra: Yeah, well no then that's

it's definitely true right because it's

808

:

And I think I've come to that point.

809

:

Think about it.

810

:

Like, if an eating disorder, we can

kind of associate to an addiction,

811

:

because I think in some ways it

is addictive behavior, right?

812

:

It's like addictive to the restriction.

813

:

It's addictive to the binging

in short periods of time.

814

:

It's addictive to binging.

815

:

Expelling that from your body

or it's an addiction to healthy

816

:

eating, which is a newer one that

I've seen come up more frequently.

817

:

But food is the one thing we

really can't get away from, right?

818

:

It's not like alcohol.

819

:

It's not like smoking or drugs.

820

:

You can't not eat.

821

:

Because you have to eat

for your body to function.

822

:

So it is a very interesting

relationship with food.

823

:

If you're trying to recover from an eating

disorder, have a better relationship with

824

:

food, and saying, I want that piece of

cake because I want it, but do I want it

825

:

because I'm emotionally eating, or because

I will really enjoy the piece of cake?

826

:

And so it's, It's a lot

of mental acrobatics

827

:

Christine: Yeah.

828

:

Alexandra: just to, eat a piece of food.

829

:

Christine: Well, also too, to Traveris's

point, it's, it's expensive to eat

830

:

healthy here in America, and I would

really love at a future time to talk to

831

:

somebody or multiple people who live in

other parts of the world who just, the

832

:

standards of, of food here is, there's

parts of the world where That's poison,

833

:

and that, that they don't even allow that.

834

:

So, I think, you know, we also have

this this handicap of, we don't

835

:

really have access to the, to food

that is truly safe for us to consume.

836

:

So, like, the, no matter how how much we

want to eat healthy, it's the, it's very

837

:

difficult to do so here affordably and.

838

:

I think, you know,

839

:

my, my family's gone to, to the

extent of even growing some food.

840

:

They, they have a backyard

and they set up a garden.

841

:

So like, you know, just

growing, growing their own food.

842

:

And, and seeing the difference

between like, I, I've seen how celery

843

:

looks at the grocery store versus my

mom grew a celery a few years ago.

844

:

And.

845

:

And it was kind of mind blowing to see

what, like, the actual growing celery

846

:

looks like versus what's in the store.

847

:

Alexandra: The taste, right?

848

:

And it's like, I recently saw something on

social media, of course that it was like,

849

:

it's funny when you start eating, we call

it real food, like food that's grown on a

850

:

tree in a ground, on a bush, on a plant.

851

:

And you eat that and people see it

on your plate, they automatically

852

:

go, Oh, you must be on a diet.

853

:

And you're like.

854

:

No, I'm just trying to fuel

my body with nutritionally.

855

:

Rich food and so that right

there is another form of

856

:

judgment people come across

857

:

when you start to Try to

eat better for your body.

858

:

Oh, you're you're on a diet.

859

:

Oh, how sad for you And something that

keeps slipping my mind that I do want

860

:

to bring up is I know we've talked

about predominantly women, but Men, it

861

:

is very under reported in men how many

struggle with eating disorders and What

862

:

Traveris was saying about how eating

disorders in black women are under

863

:

reported I'd be very curious to know

what the statistic is for black men

864

:

with eating disorders can as Compared

to white men and black and white women

865

:

Travaris: Also, I want to bring up a point

that you just said, Alexandra, about men.

866

:

I have a friend, she competitively like, I

don't know, like weightlifts, where they,

867

:

they, grow muscle, and then they're like

in spandex, and they can, she does it, she

868

:

just, I don't know, I'm fascinated by it.

869

:

And she was one day telling me how she

was getting ready for some competition,

870

:

and she was telling me what she ate.

871

:

And I was like, like that's

like a eating disorder.

872

:

She's like, yeah, that's what it is.

873

:

She's like, you're signing up for that.

874

:

Like that's your, this is

literally what you're doing.

875

:

She's like, this is a disorder.

876

:

And then you're like packing muscle

877

:

onto it.

878

:

And I was like, and she's a woman and

that's a predominantly male activity.

879

:

So it got me to thinking the same thing.

880

:

Like, like if she's doing it

and you know, so are other men.

881

:

So, so are men.

882

:

And they're probably

having the same responses.

883

:

To like, you know, I gotta be this way,

I gotta gain this amount of muscle.

884

:

But they may not look at it

like, because again, the poster

885

:

child is a skinny white girl.

886

:

So if you're a man and you're in the gym

like, Oh, I'm burly, I can lift X pounds.

887

:

You probably don't think you're

qualified to have an eating disorder.

888

:

But

889

:

eating like, 5 ounces of chicken

a day and then like lifting

890

:

that, that can't be safe.

891

:

Alexandra: No, yeah.

892

:

So, it's interesting that you're talking

about body size and weights and metrics

893

:

and so that brings us I think nicely

into the third section of today's

894

:

episode, which we're going to talk about

clothing sizes and body size labels.

895

:

So, I remember I think I've seen

it a couple times on social media

896

:

come up and it was a woman putting,

I think, size four, size two

897

:

pants down on top of each other.

898

:

And like, they were so many different

sizes and I was like, well, this is

899

:

also part of the problem because you

go into one store and you're a size X.

900

:

You go into another store, you're

four sizes larger and you're like,

901

:

how can I go from feeling great?

902

:

To feeling like shit in the same moment

because of a piece of clothing, so.

903

:

And I think earlier, Christine, you were

talking about you order clothes online, so

904

:

Christine: Yeah.

905

:

Alexandra: you want to share some of that.

906

:

Christine: Yeah, I for a long time,

it wasn't, I would say it wasn't

907

:

until college that I feel like I felt

like I could fully embrace myself.

908

:

sense of style in, in the clothes I wore

because for the longest time I felt like

909

:

there was nowhere that I couldn't walk,

I couldn't go to the mall and walk to a

910

:

store and feel good about myself because

either what they had in my size, like,

911

:

that fit me I can't, I feel silly saying

in my size because what the heck is that

912

:

But You know, it was a struggle to walk

into a store and, you know, I just, I

913

:

just would go in with the expectation

of like, I'm not going to try anything

914

:

on because nothing's going to fit me.

915

:

So yeah, I've gotten to a point, I

exclusively shop online, especially

916

:

now that I'm a size 18 for the

most part, in most stores, in most

917

:

stores that carry that sizing.

918

:

But Yeah, I also think it's a reflection

on the fashion industry as a whole, the

919

:

fast fashion industry the waste that comes

out of it and the thought that you know,

920

:

Hundreds of years ago, you would go and

have your clothes tailor made to you.

921

:

And so, it would fit you properly,

whereas I could get something

922

:

that technically fits me.

923

:

It technically can sit on my body,

but it doesn't feel like it fits me.

924

:

For for one reason or another.

925

:

Travaris: And, and I would like

to say it also, so now you have

926

:

two numbers to worry about,

927

:

like the number on the scale and

then the number that you go in the

928

:

to buy and it's like, like you just

said, Christine, like people would be

929

:

like, well, technically this fits me.

930

:

A lot of women will have pressure to be

like, well, and, and you know, old Navy,

931

:

I'm, I'm a, I'm a 14 or I have to fit into

like, they try to put themselves in stuff.

932

:

That might not necessarily fit because

the number corresponds with the number

933

:

that they consider themselves as and

934

:

my grandma has this She says this thing

and I think she I think she genuinely

935

:

believes this And I just I think it's

kind of funny because i'm like grandma.

936

:

Let's just be honest like she

tells us She's like I wear a size

937

:

14 16 feels comfortable so I get

an 18 just in case And my mom was

938

:

like, you just wear a size 18.

939

:

She's like, she's like, just say that.

940

:

And she's like, no, I'm a size 14.

941

:

And we're like, you're not.

942

:

Cause if you can wear a

18, you're not a size 14.

943

:

Like that's like, that's

like now how it works.

944

:

And it's something

945

:

that constantly plays in my head.

946

:

Does the devil

947

:

wears product is one of my.

948

:

Favorite movies

949

:

and that's a movie that touches a lot on

950

:

eating disorders and body image, and I

remember when Anne Hathaway's character

951

:

goes into like the Cafeteria, and she's

actually buying food and all the other

952

:

women have like nothing in their hands

And they and then another thing they

953

:

had 15 minutes to eat who's eating

anything in 15 minutes, and she asks

954

:

the guy She's like does any of that

do any of the girls here eat anything?

955

:

And he said, not since 4 came

the new 2 and 2 came the new 0.

956

:

And she says, well I'm a size 6.

957

:

And he's like, yeah, which is the new 14.

958

:

So it's like, sizes also come

with, , this, oh, you're that?

959

:

Like, kind of like

960

:

on Mean Girls when she was like, we

only carry sizes 0, 1, and something.

961

:

And she's

962

:

like, Well, if you're, you need a size

five, you can just head over to Sears or

963

:

something.

964

:

It's just like, there's this like,

there's this, Oh, you're that size?

965

:

Oh, that's in the back.

966

:

Or

967

:

one time my cousin worked

at a prom dress store and

968

:

this woman walked in and she said,

where are the elephant dresses?

969

:

And my cousin was like, the what?

970

:

And she's like, the elephant dresses.

971

:

And she's like, I don't know

what you're talking about.

972

:

And she's like, the one, the

dress is for a plus size woman.

973

:

And she had like this, this,

I'm like, that is awful.

974

:

Like,

975

:

why would you say that to anybody?

976

:

But in her mind, she probably

had felt like, or was made

977

:

to feel like, I'm bigger.

978

:

So this is

979

:

where, this is how I am to be, you

know, talked to or talked about.

980

:

Alexandra: well that, yeah, it's

interesting because it just made me think

981

:

of elephant as I have an hourglass shape

and technically my body frame is petite.

982

:

I do have a bit of weight on me, so

not so petite, like my frame is still

983

:

petite, but my body not so much,

but I've always had larger boobs.

984

:

So if I want nice fitting tailored

clothing, I usually have to get a size up.

985

:

So it covers the boobs without like,

Splaying up and splitting a button.

986

:

And then tailoring down for

my waist and everything.

987

:

Which is difficult because it's

fast fashion, waist which I'm sure

988

:

could be a topic all on it's own.

989

:

But it's just yeah, it's funny what

you're saying about the elephant but

990

:

that made me think of the word curvy.

991

:

So I have an hourglass shape and a

lot of the poster child for like white

992

:

women in fashion is not hourglass.

993

:

It is curvy.

994

:

A straight woman, like

just straight, no curves.

995

:

And so I felt so pressured to have

to wear the same styles, and it

996

:

never really looks good on me.

997

:

And I didn't know how to

dress for an hourglass.

998

:

And then people would say the word curvy,

which I kind of hated when they say it.

999

:

hourglass and curvy, because then it

always became curvy plus size women.

:

00:55:49,694 --> 00:55:53,144

And so just the word curvy, I have

weird associations with, but it's

:

00:55:53,464 --> 00:55:57,054

so interesting that the language we

use to express and explain something

:

00:55:57,064 --> 00:55:59,376

can morph into something else for

:

00:55:59,376 --> 00:55:59,816

somebody.

:

00:55:59,946 --> 00:56:00,346

Christine: hmm.

:

00:56:00,476 --> 00:56:06,696

Yeah, and then just going thinking back

on, on sizing again a few years ago

:

00:56:06,716 --> 00:56:10,786

back in college was when I was first

introduced to the sizing for women with,

:

00:56:10,816 --> 00:56:18,876

like, say, like, 16 with the letter

W next to it, and I didn't real and

:

00:56:18,876 --> 00:56:23,386

I always was just like, oh, okay, and

then I later learned that that was for

:

00:56:23,656 --> 00:56:28,266

plus sized women and then I always,

I, no one told me what the W stood for.

:

00:56:28,346 --> 00:56:30,006

I was like, what the hell is this W?

:

00:56:30,496 --> 00:56:35,226

And I was talking to a coworker

like a couple, like the first year

:

00:56:35,226 --> 00:56:36,636

or two after I graduated college.

:

00:56:36,636 --> 00:56:40,586

I was like, oh yeah and I, I

said in my mind, I associated

:

00:56:40,586 --> 00:56:42,826

it with wide because it's

:

00:56:42,836 --> 00:56:43,986

for plus size women.

:

00:56:44,406 --> 00:56:45,686

It stands for woman.

:

00:56:46,366 --> 00:56:47,536

That's what the industry.

:

00:56:48,156 --> 00:56:58,216

Defines that W as so 18 W is 18 woman and

it's like it just was like what I Was so

:

00:56:58,216 --> 00:57:04,456

taken aback by that and it was I Noticed

it for brands and like department stores.

:

00:57:04,466 --> 00:57:08,685

So in Macy's There's a whole section

where I know you can go and get

:

00:57:08,685 --> 00:57:15,610

sizes of from like 14 to Twenty

whatever with that and the W.

:

00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:16,490

I was like, okay.

:

00:57:17,010 --> 00:57:20,670

And it's gotten to a point where

I only really shop at one store.

:

00:57:20,890 --> 00:57:25,840

Or buy clothing from one brand because

I don't want to have to struggle

:

00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:31,730

with being one size in this brand and

another just because it's inconvenient.

:

00:57:33,190 --> 00:57:34,620

Alexandra: Detective just to figure out

:

00:57:35,565 --> 00:57:36,235

Christine: yeah,

:

00:57:36,430 --> 00:57:36,550

Alexandra: you.

:

00:57:37,534 --> 00:57:39,434

Can we talk about dressing

rooms for a moment?

:

00:57:39,584 --> 00:57:40,194

Because

:

00:57:40,456 --> 00:57:42,236

They are the bane of my existence.

:

00:57:42,236 --> 00:57:44,466

I still don't like dressing rooms,

haven't for a very long time.

:

00:57:44,757 --> 00:57:48,687

Because first of all, the mirror in

there doesn't seem to be a normal mirror.

:

00:57:48,707 --> 00:57:50,477

I feel it's always like

a fun house mirror.

:

00:57:50,527 --> 00:57:53,577

I just see all my flaws, but that

may just be the way my brain works.

:

00:57:53,997 --> 00:57:58,027

But then they're so hot and I'm

somebody who doesn't like to be warm.

:

00:57:58,787 --> 00:57:59,417

Christine: Mmhmm.

:

00:57:59,717 --> 00:58:01,727

Alexandra: on clothes, so you're

moving your body at a closed

:

00:58:01,727 --> 00:58:02,727

space, so you're getting warm

:

00:58:03,427 --> 00:58:05,887

and then it's warm and

then I'm like, I'm done.

:

00:58:05,887 --> 00:58:06,237

I just want to

:

00:58:06,237 --> 00:58:06,487

leave.

:

00:58:06,533 --> 00:58:09,928

Christine: The only place where I've

felt semi comfortable in a dressing

:

00:58:09,928 --> 00:58:14,238

room, and I don't necessarily shop from

there anymore, because I have sort of not

:

00:58:14,248 --> 00:58:18,220

liked the quality of the clothing in the

last several years, but, Torrid, there

:

00:58:18,220 --> 00:58:23,340

was a a location in a mall near where I

lived, and it was the first time I went

:

00:58:23,370 --> 00:58:28,800

in and felt excited to be shopping in

a store that I knew had my size that I

:

00:58:28,820 --> 00:58:33,720

had plenty of choices, and the dressing

rooms were bigger, and there was a fan

:

00:58:34,390 --> 00:58:40,120

that you could set at different speeds

so it made the experience semi more

:

00:58:40,170 --> 00:58:45,420

enjoyable because, yeah, you get hot,

you're taking, it's, it's, It's exercise.

:

00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:50,370

You're taking on, off and on,

different layers of clothing so yeah,

:

00:58:50,420 --> 00:58:55,549

it's just, a hard experience for

anyone, I think, to find enjoyable,

:

00:58:55,785 --> 00:58:57,635

Alexandra: Wow, so we've

covered a lot of ground.

:

00:58:57,665 --> 00:59:00,545

This is part one of a two

part conversation and what

:

00:59:00,575 --> 00:59:02,375

a whirlwind it has been.

:

00:59:02,855 --> 00:59:07,795

Today we covered a lot from body

image and health, eating disorders,

:

00:59:07,815 --> 00:59:12,345

particularly in women, and ended on

the crazy US clothing sizing for women.

:

00:59:12,618 --> 00:59:13,978

Somebody made that make sense.

:

00:59:14,118 --> 00:59:17,418

Tune back in next week as we dig more

into our experiences with the medical

:

00:59:17,418 --> 00:59:22,438

professions and our health, our hopes for

the future as it comes to body image and

:

00:59:22,438 --> 00:59:27,508

health and the role that we think social

media can play in bringing that about.

:

00:59:27,596 --> 00:59:30,426

We look forward to welcoming

back our guest Traveris and

:

00:59:30,426 --> 00:59:31,506

we'll catch you next week.

:

00:59:32,209 --> 00:59:35,029

Enjoying the conversations we're

having and the topics we're discussing?

:

00:59:35,287 --> 00:59:37,587

Consider supporting us through

our Buy Us a Coffee page.

:

00:59:37,747 --> 00:59:41,107

We greatly appreciate any help in

creating this podcast we love so much.

:

00:59:41,300 --> 00:59:42,750

Link in our show notes and link tree.

:

00:59:43,010 --> 00:59:46,130

Before we end, don't forget to

like, subscribe, or follow us on

:

00:59:46,130 --> 00:59:47,410

your preferred listening platforms.

:

00:59:47,620 --> 00:59:48,640

And we'll catch you next time.

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About the Podcast

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About your hosts

Profile picture for Christine Borowsky

Christine Borowsky

Introducing our enchanting co-host Christine, a nostalgic soul with a creative spark and an infectious optimism. A devourer of books, a music aficionado, and a film buff, she's immersed in the art of storytelling. Nature is her sanctuary, from forests to oceans. Eager for adventure, she's a perpetual learner, finding growth in every experience. Family and friends provide her comfort and joy. Unafraid of uncomfortable conversations, she navigates them with humor, believing they're vital for understanding and growth. Join her and Alexandra on this podcast where creativity meets curiosity, and laughter blends with wisdom.
Profile picture for Alexandra Montross

Alexandra Montross

Meet Alexandra, the spirited co-host of this captivating podcast, where everyday topics transform into enchanting conversations. With an old soul and a knack for the eclectic, she weaves a unique blend of organization and quirky charm into each discussion. Alexandra's passions span from wellness to metaphysics and dive into the thrilling world of entrepreneurship. Tune in for her lively perspective and insightful takes, adding a touch of magic to every episode alongside Christine. Get ready for a journey where Alexandra's vibrant energy and depth of knowledge create an unforgettable podcast experience.