History of St. Patrick's Day

Alexandra: 00:00:11

Hello and welcome to the mirror project.

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We are your hosts, Alexandra,

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Christine: and Christine.

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Alexandra: And we are so

glad you're joining us today.

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We're going to be discussing St.

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Patrick's day as it is right around

the corner from the legends of the

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Catholic saint and his missionary

work in Ireland to the holiday and

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celebrations we know today, as we

are both of some Irish descent, this

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episode was the perfect opportunity

to research, learn more about the day

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and share what we learned with you.

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Christine: Before we dive into today's

topic, like, subscribe, or follow us

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on your preferred listening platform.

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Go ahead, pause, and do

it now before you forget.

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Don't worry, we won't

get started without you!

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Alexandra: So Christine, why don't

we get into the legends of St.

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Patrick and what was

the history around it?

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Cause I know you did quite a lot

of preparation for this episode.

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So how about you share with us

all and we will be your pupils.

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Christine: Happy to.

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So I can't recall if I've mentioned

this in previous episodes, but in

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addition to also being of Irish

descent, I also went to Catholic

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school pretty much my whole life.

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So I learned about St.

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Patrick at one point in school, but it

was definitely, I not the real version.

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So I was very interested to

learn more and have uncovered

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quite a bit of info to share.

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So who was Patrick?

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Patrick was born in Britain and grew up

a very spoiled, rebellious, young Roman

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citizen while living a very luxurious

life in fifth century Britain, probably

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near the Hadrian wall of Northern England.

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They don't know for sure, but

that's where they think he was from.

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His father, Calpurnicus, is

described as a decurion which

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is a Senator and tax collector.

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I did not know.

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I've I've heard of Deacon, which

he also was in the Catholic

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religion, but not a Decurian.

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Alexandra: feel like we're pulling out

some ancient Roman history or something

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from the textbooks and I was like, oh,

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Christine: And a fun fact It's been

suggested that his father took on the

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role because of the tax incentives,

and there's no evidence that Patrick

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came from a particularly religious

family, which I thought was also

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very interesting and makes sense.

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And you'll find out more in a minute.

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At the age of 16, he was kidnapped

from his family estate by Irish raiders

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and sold into and taken to Ireland.

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And for six years he endured brutal

conditions and watched over his master's

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sheep on some mountain in Ireland.

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So.

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Another fact that I found interesting

was that when he was taken to Ireland,

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he was an atheist and while enduring

those years of slavery is when he did

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turn to his religion and heard what

he believed to be the voice of God

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and in a dream learned of a ship that

he was to escape on and fled from his

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captor and headed back to Britain.

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There was a whole long

journey that was involved.

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But.

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For the sake of giving you the highlights,

I'm gonna skip that for now, but I

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encourage anybody else who might find

these facts interesting, please dive in.

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There's so much learn.

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Alexandra: I'm

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sure.

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Christine: So Yeah, he finally, after

six years, escaped from Ireland,

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heads back home where he is welcomed

back warmly by his family and they

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all assume that he'd take up his life

of privilege again, but Patrick felt

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called to do something different.

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He really found purpose in his religion

and felt called to a mission which

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was to bring Catholicism to Ireland.

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So, that's a little history on

who Patrick was before he became

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the saint we all know today.

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Alexandra: That's a great point,

because I think it would be awesome to

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talk about more the legends about St.

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Patrick, right?

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But also, so he felt he was called

to missionize in Ireland, but what

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was Ireland like before Christianity

really touched that part of the world.

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Did you find anything out of, about that?

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Christine: sure.

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So I'll make this one point first and

then I'll give you a little background.

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Patrick was not the first missionary to

try and bring the Catholic religion to

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Ireland, but he was the most successful,

but a little, background into what

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Ireland was like before Christianity.

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So the Ireland that Patrick was Forced

into, kidnapped and taken to, was nothing

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like where he grew up in Britain, which

was at the time part of the Roman Empire.

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Dozens of Irish kings ruled the

countryside with the help of headhunting

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warriors, which these kings would

dispense to do their bidding.

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And additionally, there's also Druids

guiding their followers in a religion

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filled with countless gods and perhaps

even the occasional human sacrifice.

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Alexandra: I feel like we could

totally dive into a couple episodes

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on pre Abrahamic religions around

the world and what place is like.

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So I would love to stick a pin in

that for another day because that

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would be so cool to talk about.

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But more about pre Christian Ireland.

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Christine: Sure.

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Absolutely.

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Another interesting thing I learned

was that Irish women were nothing

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like the women he grew up with in

Britain, and early Ireland was not a

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world that was perfect for women by

any means, but an Irish wife could

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at least control her own property.

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Divorce her husband for a number

of reasons, including if he became

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too fat for sexual intercourse.

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Alexandra: have many questions about that.

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Christine: I do too.

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Alexandra: that was the defining reason

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of

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Christine: one of them.

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That was definitely one of them.

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Alexandra: Okay.

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Christine: but, yeah,

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but, Irish women who were slaves

did face a very cruel, bruling life.

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And time and again in his letters,

Patrick writes about his concern

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for many enslaved women of Ireland

who basically endured brutal

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beatings and abuse on a daily basis.

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So it definitely was interesting to see

how women were treated in Ireland, but if

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you were a slave and a woman, it sounds

like you were treated significantly worse.

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Alexandra: Mm.

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Yeah.

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And bringing up kind of not a topic

on the history of like Irish and Irish

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tradition, but I remember from our trip

to New Orleans a couple of years ago,

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We learned that Louisiana was settled

under French law versus British common

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law, and they also had more rights to

property and divorces and business.

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So it seems like, I'm guessing, I

would have to do some research into

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this, that a lot of British law comes

from Roman tradition, and That women

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might have had better opportunities

in other cultures, knowing that

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no one is perfect above all else.

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Because it seems like as though they had

some benefits and could at least divorce

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their husband for a number of reasons,

but one really interesting one that was

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not necessarily the benefit for all.

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That's really interesting.

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Okay.

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So what are some of the legends,

Christine, that we have heard about

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and are common for us to know about St.

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Patrick's today?

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Are there any truth to those or are they

just stories people have perpetuated?

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Christine: Yeah, the ones that he's

probably most famous for and ones that

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you probably have heard even if

you're not Catholic or of Irish

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descent are most likely false.

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So, we'll start with one that I brought

up to Alexandra when we first started

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talking about this episode, which

was that he miraculously drove all of

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the snakes of Ireland into the sea.

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that is 100 percent false.

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There was no snakes in Ireland and and

actually come to learn that, was most

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likely in reference to him driving out

pagan religions that were Honestly,

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before he came in and before Catholicism

flourished in Ireland, ruled that country.

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And that's again, a whole nother, a

whole nother episode we could dive

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into,

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around Catholicism and the pagan religion.

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Alexandra: but an interesting use

of metaphor in history, I guess.

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Christine: indeed, Another is that

he used the three leaf shamrock to

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explain the concept of the Holy Trinity.

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But is a nice story to tell

kids, especially if you're

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raising them to be a Catholic.

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It definitely is a good visual.

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But that is 100 percent false.

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And I don't know if this is true

or not, but, Patrick himself wrote

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that he raised people from the dead.

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And that the number could

be as high as 33 people.

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Alexandra: I'm sorry, the church

didn't have issues with that?

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Christine: No!

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No!

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Well, as we, as we know from

the Bible, you know, Jesus

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raised people from the dead.

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I don't know if he raised quite

that many people, Damn, Patrick.

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But apparently,

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Alexandra: question is, how is

that different from the pagan

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fate, like people before, like

druids and things that they did?

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Other questions, I will

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Christine: We'll, we'll,

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Alexandra: put a pin in it.

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Christine: a running document with all

of our questions and try and make sense

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of it as we, as we, as we learn more.

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But, yeah, so, he raised, he

raised 33 people from the dead,

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some to have been thought to be

deceased for many years, which,

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Alexandra: Maybe that's where

we get the idea of zombies.

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You know, because I'm assuming body

preservation may not be what it is

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today, or what it was in ancient

Egyptian times for, you know, the

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pharaohs.

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So, I have to wonder.

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Christine: well another to your

point about our trip when we went

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down to New Orleans, we learned that

it was an actual job for somebody

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to sit outside of a person who was

recently buried in New Orleans.

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I mean, if you don't know anything about

how people are buried in New Orleans,

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they're not actually buried in the ground.

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But they, that was a job.

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Someone sat outside the tomb of somebody

who has recently interned there and

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basically would wait around all day

to see if someone was ringing a bell

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because it was a thing that people were

accidentally buried before they passed.

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Alexandra: I think, and that's not

just specific to New Orleans either.

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I think in many parts of the world that

mostly I think Western cultures I'm

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thinking more England and the States

where they would tie like a string to

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a finger or some ligament and somebody

would have like a night shift at a

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graveyard and, you know, her body moved

and, you know, wasn't actually dead.

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The, it would pull the string,

which would ring the bell.

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So people could, I guess,

come unbury them, but.

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I don't know, I'd be a little mad if

my family burned me before my time.

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I'd be like, hey, are you

trying to get rid of me?

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I mean, I guess it's better than,

you know, being lit a blaze, but

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Christine: Yeah, definitely

my worst nightmare.

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I would literally, like, that is a

fear of mine is being buried alive.

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So,

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Alexandra: Kind of sad to think

that it was common enough that

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they, this was a regular practice.

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you been in Ireland, you might have

been one of the thirty, potentially

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thirty three people to come

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Christine: Right.

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Also, 33.

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I don't know if there's anything.

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In that number, sorry, this is a little

off topic, three leaves on the shamrock

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is, Patrick's number three and they

just associate different numbers.

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Alexandra: The Trinity three and

one, the triquadra, you know,

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anything.

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Christine: But yeah, so that, that's

a little bit about the history of

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who he was, the legends that he's

known for and what Ireland was

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like before Christianity became so

widespread throughout the country.

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Alexandra: It's very interesting to kind

of see, I guess, at one point legend and

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history were almost interchangeable, I

guess, in some ways makes me think about,

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you know, what we learn and being very

curious about different topics and then

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wanting to go explore it on your own,

because you're interested in, not because

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you're, you Being lectured at in a, you

know, in a classroom or in Sunday school

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so that makes me think just interesting.

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So Christine, you have shared

so much about the history of St.

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Patrick, who he was, what, how he

started to missionize in Ireland,

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which is so interesting, kind of that

mix between history and legend, right?

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And what we know today.

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What in your research did you find

about the holiday celebrating St.

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Patrick today in the world?

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Is it just something predominantly for

those in Ireland or those of Irish descent

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around the world, or what has it become?

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What did you find out?

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Christine: Yeah.

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So I was really intrigued

to sort of see how is St.

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Patrick's Day celebrated globally?

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Because here in America, here

in the States, it's a big day.

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And what I learned is that St.

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Patrick's Day is not necessarily

about the saint anymore.

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It's more a day of Irish pride and

culture and celebrating that heritage.

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So here in the States,

it's a really big day.

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there's parades and A lot of

people drink and party and partake

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in dancing and, and all of that.

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So I wanted to see if it was

just as big around the world and

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I was happily surprised it is.

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It's celebrated worldwide in

more than 200 countries And they

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celebrate by parades, festivals,

music, dancing, food, and, drink.

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So, it was nice to see that it's, a

day, , celebrating Irish culture for

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those of Irish descent, living in

other countries, it's a way for them to

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celebrate that part of their heritage.

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And I dug a little deeper because

I wanted to see how big is St.

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Patrick's day in Ireland.

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And it is a big day for

them, although they.

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don't necessarily celebrate, I

think, how we do here in the States.

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But again, I feel like Americans have

their own special, they add their

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own special twist to everything.

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I say that with all the love in my heart

for, for this country that I live in, but

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we know how to really make things our own.

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but in Ireland they celebrate with people.

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festivals dancing, singing, partaking in

Irish dance and lots of food and drink.

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So it's definitely a day of pride

for, for all people of Irish descent.

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Alexandra: That's so cool.

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I love that you bring up dancing

because I've only ever heard it called

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Irish dancing, but I don't know if

there's a more traditional name for it.

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Christine: Me too, actually.

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I'm not sure.

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Alexandra: in some ways it makes me think

of tap, but almost more structured, right?

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Because of how still.

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Irish dancers keep their upper body and

I think, what was it, Riverdance, that

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company and show that really kind of

revitalized and modernized some of the

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Irish dancing for a larger audience,

which is so cool because I think, I

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don't know, I find joy in watching it.

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It's so interesting to see how people can

match up their steps and how high they

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get their legs while keeping their body

so straight and it's, it's just amazing.

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As we have talked about that we met On

a dance team in college and it wasn't

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through the dance team, but in the

coed fraternity that I was in at our

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university, somebody, an older girl in

the fraternity, she did Irish dancing

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for a long time since she was a kid.

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And I remember I got to see

her, I think there was a talent

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show or some sort of exhibition.

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Somewhere on campus for

something and she did it.

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And I was like, this is so cool.

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And I have never done that kind of

dancing in the years that I dance.

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What about you, Christine?

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Did you ever attempt and try?

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Christine: Oh, I'm sure I attempted.

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Because at one point, my parents took

my sisters and I, to Lord of the Dance.

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Which was another Irish dance

show, similar to Riverdance.

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They came here to New Jersey to the New

Jersey Performing Arts Center and at the

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time, you know, I was still very much

Training in ballet and loved to dance.

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So I was like, how hard can it be?

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let me see if I can figure out how to do

this, but I don't have any formal training

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and I Could be wrong, but from what I

have heard over the years, the reason

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why Irish dancing, your upper body is so

stiff is because I believe at one point

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in Ireland, dancing was against the law.

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And so when people got together and I

could be wrong, I haven't in my research,

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this didn't come up, but this is just

what I recall learning at some point You

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know, the, the reason why the upper body

is so stiff was when people got together

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at gatherings, they created a dance

that from afar looks like they were just

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walking around I don't know if that's

true, but it's an interesting thought.

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It definitely, speaks to why

the upper body is so stiff.

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It's certainly very impressive

when you see, when you see

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people dancing like that.

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It's, it's very impressive.

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Alexandra: And the height they get

for some of the jumps with the, the

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legs crossing in the air and stuff.

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I don't know.

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I really enjoy

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watching it.

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Christine: Yeah.

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, I'm going to do some little research

after , this conversation to see

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if my point about dancing being

outlawed in Ireland to be true

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or not, but I don't know.

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Yeah, I just, someone

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Alexandra: maybe that's a.

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Topic for another episode, the history

of different dancing styles around the

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world or how dancing has been outlawed

in some places and not in others.

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And for anyone listening out there, as

we've mentioned, this is our first history

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episode and We are clearly learning our

way around how to do one of these, but

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if you guys are interested, definitely

send us a DM, leave us a comment, or

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shoot us an email about things you

would like us to look up and talk about.

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But all that said, makes me think of when

I was really young, a baby, and even to

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today, one of the artists that really

kind of calms me, and I don't remember

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if she's from Ireland or more of just

in the, like, a Celtic genre, but Enya.

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Yeah.

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: 00:18:07

I used to fall asleep to all of her music.

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: 00:18:09

And now it's just one of the most,

high vibrational, calming things.

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: 00:18:13

Like, if I'm having a really

stressed out day, I just pop on Enya.

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: 00:18:16

My mom used to put me to sleep with it.

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: 00:18:19

And so it's one of my favorite things.

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: 00:18:20

So, I think usually on St.

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: 00:18:22

Patrick's Day and I always remember to

listen to at least a couple of her songs.

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: 00:18:26

But while we're talking about the

day, I know you had looked at other

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: 00:18:30

countries, so what do other countries

outside of the States and Ireland, how do

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: 00:18:34

they

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: 00:18:34

celebrate?

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: 00:18:35

What do they do?

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: 00:18:35

Christine: So in Chicago, they actually

dye the Chicago river green, which

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: 00:18:40

I hope today is not environmentally

damaging, but I thought that was kind

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: 00:18:44

of interesting, and to actually see the

pictures, I was like, yeah, that's green.

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: 00:18:48

That is lime green.

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: 00:18:50

But another popular thing throughout major

cities around the world like in London,

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: 00:18:55

the London Eye, in New York, the Empire

State Building, Rio, Christ the Redeemer,

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: 00:19:02

countless places, they light up those

monuments and buildings with green lights.

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: 00:19:08

As just like a beacon,

almost, in celebration of St.

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: 00:19:12

Patrick's Day.

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: 00:19:13

one that was particularly interesting

because most countries do this,

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: 00:19:19

they go, go green, they call it,

for, for free, they just do it as in

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: 00:19:23

celebration, but actually in Sydney,

Australia they charged Tourism Ireland

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: 00:19:29

to light up the Sydney Opera House.

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: 00:19:33

To be green, which I thought was, I

don't know, this is what one, one source

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: 00:19:37

mentioned, but in 2014, the Sydney

opera house reportedly charged 8, 000

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: 00:19:43

Euro to tourism Ireland to do this,

which is more than any other landmark.

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: 00:19:49

Now I don't, this is what one source

shared with me, but all other, all,

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: 00:19:54

I believe all these other Places I

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: 00:19:55

mentioned, they just, they just did it

because, you know, I, I mean, especially

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: 00:20:00

here in New York, the Empire State,

the Empire State Building, they are

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: 00:20:04

constantly, they, they change the colors

for sporting events, for, you know, The

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: 00:20:09

holidays, like Christmas and New Year's.

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: 00:20:12

So I don't think they're

charging anybody, but that was,

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: 00:20:17

that was interesting to learn.

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: 00:20:18

So I'd have to dig deeper to see what

that's all about, but it popped up.

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: 00:20:23

So I thought I'd share.

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: 00:20:25

Alexandra: Yeah, so do you have

anything that you do specifically on St.

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: 00:20:29

Patrick's Day to celebrate Irish heritage,

or has there been something that your

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: 00:20:33

family has always done and you continue?

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: 00:20:36

Christine: So growing up, my

grandmother, my dad's mom loved St.

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: 00:20:41

Patrick's Day.

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: 00:20:42

She loved any occasion for us to all get

together and celebrate, but especially St.

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: 00:20:46

Patrick's Day because that's, that

is a big part of her heritage.

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: 00:20:50

And we'd all get together.

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: 00:20:51

She'd do the full feast with corned

beef and Irish soda bread and

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: 00:20:55

cabbage and mashed potatoes and this

whole lovely spread, essentially.

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: 00:20:59

Like, Her other favorite holiday is

Thanksgiving, so I feel like this

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: 00:21:02

was Thanksgiving part two almost.

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: 00:21:05

But she, she absolutely loved it and

she's what kept that holiday alive I

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: 00:21:10

think for a lot of people in my family.

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: 00:21:14

And I, I would say today, you

know, I'm not much of a, I'm not

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: 00:21:18

necessarily one to go out and drink

and party, but you know, I'd like to,

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: 00:21:24

Alexandra: You don't do the pub

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: 00:21:25

Christine: no, but I'll have a

Guinness or I'll I'll enjoy some

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: 00:21:30

corned beef and Irish soda bread.

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: 00:21:31

And I'd love to, I haven't yet,

but I'd love to attend a St.

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: 00:21:34

Patrick's Day parade because

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: 00:21:36

that would just be so fun.

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: 00:21:37

so, yeah, how about Alexandra?

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: 00:21:39

Alexandra: Usually, my mom would we would

never made Irish soda bread, but we would

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: 00:21:44

pull out the corned beef and cabbage.

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: 00:21:46

And when I was younger, I used

to dislike cabbage but now

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: 00:21:49

Christine: not a fan.

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: 00:21:50

Alexandra: I think this year, you're

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: 00:21:51

Christine: I don't, not

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: 00:21:52

merely just have the corned beef.

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: 00:21:53

Alexandra: Well, if anyone doesn't

know, Christine will actually be

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: 00:21:55

coming to visit me and be spending St.

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: 00:21:57

Patrick's Day with us this

year, so, Who knows, my mom

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: 00:22:00

and I might feed her cabbage?

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: 00:22:02

We don't know.

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: 00:22:03

It took me a long time to get it, and

I have to, It's going to be cooked in a

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: 00:22:07

certain way for me to really enjoy it.

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: 00:22:09

Almost a little bit

caramelized and has some chew.

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: 00:22:12

Anywho, although maybe this year we'll

try some shepherd's pie even though

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: 00:22:16

the origin of that is a little bit

more of the British Isles, a little

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: 00:22:20

bit of ambiguity of whether it's

Ireland or the British, like Britain.

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: 00:22:24

So we might do that.

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: 00:22:26

But so that was food

wise what we would do.

400

: 00:22:29

Not being Catholic or Christian, really,

I don't go to any specific mass or service

401

: 00:22:35

for that so, other than that somebody in

high school introduced me to the Dropkick

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: 00:22:39

Murphys and the group Flocking Wollies,

so I started listening to some of that

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: 00:22:44

which really kind of makes me amped up.

404

: 00:22:47

So that's kind of fun.

405

: 00:22:48

But when I was a kid, I remember

being in school and you had to wear

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: 00:22:52

green, otherwise you were pinched.

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: 00:22:54

And then there was a lot of lore about

like leprechauns and finding a bottle

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: 00:22:58

of gold at the end of the rainbow.

409

: 00:23:00

And so we would sometimes teachers would

buy the big bags of the chocolate gold

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: 00:23:04

coins and sometimes we'd have that.

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: 00:23:06

So that's a memory I

associate with you know, St.

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: 00:23:09

Patrick's day and So, I have to think.

413

: 00:23:11

I do, I do have something green, so

I can wear green this, this coming

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: 00:23:15

Sunday, and it's You know, it just kind

of makes me smile and it's kind of sad

415

: 00:23:22

that it takes one day of the year to

make me think I want to dive more into

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: 00:23:27

Irish culture and Irish tradition.

417

: 00:23:29

But it's also a good

reminder to keep pursuing.

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: 00:23:32

Christine: Absolutely.

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: 00:23:33

Alexandra: yeah, but

that's kind of what we do.

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: 00:23:35

I like to go outside.

421

: 00:23:36

I think it's, you know, beautiful and

sunny because it's, you know, More

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: 00:23:41

towards spring, we're starting to come

into on the east coast I'm just being

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: 00:23:45

outside.

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: 00:23:46

So makes me think of

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: 00:23:47

Christine: that's nice.

426

: 00:23:48

Speaking of being outside and

the clover being associated

427

: 00:23:53

with Ireland, I believe it's

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: 00:23:55

actually the country's flower.

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: 00:23:58

So that's another thing I learned.

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: 00:24:00

But have you ever found

a four leaf clover?

431

: 00:24:03

Alexandra: I don't remember if I have,

but I remember in like phys ed class

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: 00:24:07

when, before high school, we, that

period we would always go out like in the

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: 00:24:12

ground searching for a four leaf clover.

434

: 00:24:14

I don't remember, I don't think I ever

found one, but I think somebody else in my

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: 00:24:17

class did.

436

: 00:24:18

Which is kind of cool.

437

: 00:24:19

Christine: Yeah, I actually found one.

438

: 00:24:21

I did keep it.

439

: 00:24:22

I don't still have it.

440

: 00:24:24

But I remember I was at my parents

home here in New Jersey and we were

441

: 00:24:29

out front and my parents, they live

on a pretty decent size piece of land.

442

: 00:24:35

And, you know, clovers were mixed in

with the grass all throughout the yard.

443

: 00:24:41

And I remember finding it in our

front yard and I was so excited.

444

: 00:24:45

I ran inside and I showed my mom and

she helped me wrap it in, in cellophane.

445

: 00:24:50

And I kept it for the longest

time I had it in my room as, as

446

: 00:24:53

just like a symbol of good luck.

447

: 00:24:55

But yeah, I'm curious to see,

has anybody else listening

448

: 00:24:59

found a four leaf clover before?

449

: 00:25:01

Would love to know.

450

: 00:25:02

And if you still have it.

451

: 00:25:04

Alexandra: Share a

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: 00:25:04

picture

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: 00:25:04

Christine: I wish, yeah,

cuz I wish I still had mine.

454

: 00:25:08

Alexandra: no, I'm sure you'll find

455

: 00:25:10

Christine: I'll find, I'll, I'll,

I'll just have to start looking again.

456

: 00:25:13

I'm sure I'll be able to find it,

457

: 00:25:14

Alexandra: and to anyone out there

listening, if you want to share

458

: 00:25:17

with us what your traditions for St.

459

: 00:25:19

Patrick's day and what you do eat and

enjoy, we would love to hear that.

460

: 00:25:23

So definitely send us a message and we

may feature you on our social media, which

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: 00:25:29

would be a fun way to engage with you all

and kind of further build this community.

462

: 00:25:33

So in that we've, we've

covered quite a lot.

463

: 00:25:36

Christine, you have any

other things that we have

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: 00:25:39

Christine: Oh.

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: 00:25:39

Alexandra: absolutely

missed and we have to cover?

466

: 00:25:41

Christine: know, there probably is, but

maybe we'll just have to revisit this

467

: 00:25:44

again, you know, I, there was so much.

468

: 00:25:47

Yeah, there was so much I was learning

about this past week for this episode

469

: 00:25:51

and there's honestly, it was interesting

because there's so much, but so much

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: 00:25:55

is also not known because this was

back in, you know, The fifth century.

471

: 00:25:59

but still what I what I did learn,

we just scratched the surface here.

472

: 00:26:03

So I want to thank you all

so much for joining us on our

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: 00:26:06

first history focus episode.

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: 00:26:08

Alexandra and I really enjoyed learning

the real story behind this holiday that so

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: 00:26:12

many people celebrate and party to today.

476

: 00:26:16

Please let us know how

you like this episode.

477

: 00:26:17

We want to do more shows like

this going forward and would

478

: 00:26:20

love to hear your thoughts.

479

: 00:26:22

Join us next week as we aim to

define what bravery means to us.

480

: 00:26:26

See you then!

481

: 00:26:29

Alexandra: Enjoying the

conversations we're having and

482

: 00:26:31

the topics we're discussing?

483

: 00:26:33

Consider supporting us through

our Buy Us a Coffee page.

484

: 00:26:35

We greatly appreciate any help in

creating this podcast we love so much.

485

: 00:26:39

Link in our show notes and link tree.

486

: 00:26:40

Before we end, don't forget to

like, subscribe, or follow us on

487

: 00:26:43

your preferred listening platforms.

488

: 00:26:45

And we'll catch you next time.